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#21 Norren

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 07:52 AM

If you're reading the LNs, I strongly suggest you save copies from the BT site for yourself.

Without getting into details, seems that in response to someone selling BT translations, One of the translators deleted SAO book 9 for a few days and threatened to nuke the whole section as a warning to profiteers. It isn't the first time that particular translator has acted in rage, and taken things out on the fanbase, so backup copies seem prudent. sad.gif

#22 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 07:59 AM

Really? Good that I always have copys of what I watch and read on my computer but maybe I should get my hands on more stuff from them then.
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#23 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 04:41 PM

Just read the Material Edition and it had pretty good side storys too. I loved the revelation to Argos Whiskers. I sure wished she wouldve appeared in the mainstory and afterwards because shes an interesting character.

I really hope Kawahara Reki will continue Monochrome Concerto (because I want to know what will happen with the beautiful dark elf, her quest and more of Asuna and Kirito) and Rondo of the Transient Sword (well I still have chapter 2-5 to read) because I want to know how Kirito was able to get into the raid for the second floor boss since it should be impossible after what happened in Aria in the Starless Night.
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#24 Norren

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Aug 09 2012, 09:41 AM)
Just read the Material Edition and it had pretty good side storys too. I loved the revelation to Argos Whiskers. I sure wished she wouldve appeared in the mainstory and afterwards because shes an interesting character.

I really hope Kawahara Reki will continue Monochrome Concerto (because I want to know what will happen with the beautiful dark elf, her quest and more of Asuna and Kirito) and Rondo of the Transient Sword (well I still have chapter 2-5 to read) because I want to know how Kirito was able to get into the raid for the second floor boss since it should be impossible after what happened in Aria in the Starless Night.

Argo is really interesting... did you notice she fights with Claws, plural? I wonder how many dual wield weapon classes Aincrad has, if we count that one dual wielding axe fighter from the anime version of The Black Swordsman as canon, we're at four, in chronological order of appearance: Argo's Claws, the bandit's dual axe build, Holy Sword, and Dual Blades.

The next book scheduled to print is "Aincrad Progressive", which would suggest Aria/Rondo/Concerto as a set.

I also doubt the infamous beater would have trouble getting into a progression raid, to be honest. Kibaou and friends would be the only ones opposed to him in the first place, when opposed by Egil and Asuna the majority would shrug and make a non-decision.

#25 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:52 PM

QUOTE (Norren @ Aug 09 2012, 07:01 PM)
I also doubt the infamous beater would have trouble getting into a progression raid, to be honest. Kibaou and friends would be the only ones opposed to him in the first place, when opposed by Egil and Asuna the majority would shrug and make a non-decision.

You really think so? I cant really imagine that since people tend to be jealous and hatefull to people, well who are not them, especially gamers. at least thats the experience I made while gaming for aber 15 years.
It was probably that everyone just went ahead with what Asuna did because shes a woman ^^
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#26 Norren

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 06:48 AM

I don't really think he'd have much trouble... Kibaou aside... in Rondo, Asuna attributes (and likely other members of the clearing group as well) the air of hope and the second floor itself to him.

Even then, they don't have to make much of a decision. The raids aren't full at that point - you can see that when Kirito and Asuna get onto the 3rd floor at the start of Concerto, they were still a two person group in a raid.

#27 daedalron

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Posted 10 August 2012 - 02:02 PM

Besides, even if he's hated, everyone would still consider that he has valuable intel on the fights, and as such, he is a pretty important raid member, especially since while it's still only the second floor, the scouting of boss tactics has not been perfected yet.

You'd just have to assign him a role to make sure he'll not betray the raid.

Edited by daedalron, 10 August 2012 - 02:03 PM.


#28 Norren

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:41 PM

Wooooaaaaahhhh.

This week's episode looks to represent a serious break from the book canon with PoH not being in jail ... or does it?

enter spoiler discussion: Something to note, the new Aliciziation chapters have a spot where Shino pokes at Kirito about a line from the embellished "insider's story of SAO" book that apparently gets published around the time the Alicization arc starts: "did you really say that when fighting laughing coffin?  "when I use two swords, I am unbeatable!""

That splits things up a bit, since the Laughing Coffin Crusade arc according to book 1 happened before the ragout rabbit incident, but Kirito NEVER displayed his dual swords to anyone but Lizbet until the incident with The Gleameyes.  Could this potentially mean the crusade against laughing coffin happens in response to PoH recruiting Kuradeel?

TLDR: Laughing Coffin Crusade episode soon, maybe. biggrin.gif


#29 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:53 PM

QUOTE (Norren @ Aug 25 2012, 11:41 PM)
Wooooaaaaahhhh.

This week's episode looks to represent a serious break from the book canon with PoH not being in jail ... or does it?

Im not through everything translated (a few pages of book 9 are left) but I cant remember that I read that PoH was in ever in jail. IIRC when Kirito thought back to the crusade he meantioned PoH not beeing there or beeing able to escape. And there wasnt a word of it that said he was caught in real life (just like XAXA and Johnny neither went to prison in RL for now).
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#30 Norren

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:17 PM

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Aug 25 2012, 03:53 PM)
Im not through everything translated (a few pages of book 9 are left) but I cant remember that I read that PoH was in ever in jail. IIRC when Kirito thought back to the crusade he meantioned PoH not beeing there or beeing able to escape. And there wasnt a word of it that said he was caught in real life (just like XAXA and Johnny neither went to prison in RL for now).

As far as the RL part goes, They intentionally deleted the PK results and only went so far as giving intense psychiatric counseling to the really bad PKs.  So it makes sense that they were all free IRL, afterwards.  But I could've sworn that Kirito commented the crusade captured all of Laughing Coffin's senior members during the GGO arc.  I'll have to re-read it when I'm not neck deep in catchup work.

Edited by Norren, 26 August 2012 - 01:47 AM.


#31 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 03:35 PM

So Im through to the volumes 1-9 and the sidestories except the Alicization one and now Im gonna stop and wait until a full book is translated again.

The Alicization story is pretty interestint mainly because neither we nor Kirito know what is really happening. Where is he, what happened to him in the Real World and so on. And is it really him? Like he already suggested he could only be a fluctlight too, a character based of his "soul" and memories. Maybe "he"s just part of a simulation so see what happens when his person comes into that world full of rules. But there is one thing that speaks against it beeing only a created Kirito and that is that he knows what happened right until before Johnny Black attacked them and thus the people at RATH mustve copied his memories after that so they just couldve put the real him into the underworld. Well it doesnt really speak against that theory but its a bit out of place for it.
Another interesting thing is Alicia. If its true that the people of the Underworld cant go against the taboos then she might be just what Kirito is and maybe he got sent there to get her out of it. Maybe the game itself is blocking Alicia to get out of the STL until the matter arround her is solved in a for that world logical manner.
And why doesnt RATH know about this world? Are they just lying about it, or does it maybe not even have something to do with RATH but something else?

After the third book I was really asking myself why this series is called Sword Art Online if only the first two books (one of them beeing sidestories) are about it. I thought maybe he only intended to do only two books and because it was so successful he continued it but after reading till where I am now its pretty clear because regardless where Kirito goes, what he does and whatever other game he plays SAO still follows and haunts him and the people around him.

Really too bad that the anime cant even come close to the books. At itself the anime isnt bad but compared to the books it might be one of the worst adaptions Ive seen. Still better than the new Berserk movie but still bad.
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#32 Norren

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 06:19 PM

What's translated of Book 10 answers most of those questions. It actually makes quite a bit of sense given the chekhov's guns he's been hanging since ALO. (the wait's killing me for the rest, tho'.)

Honestly, I don't buy the actual reason behind the Alicization Arc in the first place, this is Kirito, inventor of freaking MAGIC BREAK, master of breaking weapons in SAO. Why did he not try to smash the syringe gun in the first place? I'm guessing it's just so Johnny Black can turn up dead later- The place Kirito hit is a major artery with an extremely short bleed out time- but in general, Kirito should have been going for survival, not a kill.

I still think you're being way too harsh on the anime. Some series have had infinitely worse adaptations, especially game to anime conversions (The original Fate/Stay night travesty, anyone?), or epic "WTF happened here?" derails where they completely abandon the source material for whatever reason. (Rurouni Kenshin, Mahou Sensei Negima, Fullmetal Alchemist, etc.) This one's not what you wanted out of it, sure, but it's still really good, they're not going cheap, and even omitting stuff they're still keeping the story really true to source.

#33 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 07:12 PM

Whats "chekhov's guns"? He never used a gun.

I at first too thought how he could let Johnny Black hit him even though hes Kirito, but its Johnny Black were talking about here. Hes not just another player from SAO but one of the three highest of Laughing Coffin so its not surprising that he has skill too.

Well Ive neither seen or read Rurouni Kenshin, Mahou Sensei Negima, Fullmetal Alchemist so I cant say anything about their adapations and I really like the Fate Stay Night anime while I only got through about 30 min of the VN after I stopped it before it bore me to death. Sometimes making something new is actually quite good, for example the animes to Kurogane no Linebarrel and Kurokami are far better than their mangas and the Kaichou wa Maid-sama anime was a bit better (but really only a bit better since both manga and anime are great) than its manga too.
Seems like we have a different understanding of whats "keeping the story really true to source" is because for me they have left out far too much stuff to even consider it beeing near the story. After all they didnt really animate part of the story for now. All they did was animate a few sidestorys which have no substance at this point of the series instead of animating the story of SAO.
But you are right thinking back there are a lot of bad adaptions (just thinking of the countless eroge adaptions -.-) so it may not be one of the worst adaptions but thats not making it better. Like I said if the Novels never existed it would be a good anime but compared to the Novels the anime loses big time, but I can understand that animating a novel is just far too difficult to actually succeed. At least not with the current anime-industry.

Currently Im reading Utsuro no hako to Zero no Maria and I really hope they never make an anime out of it because it can only fail.
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#34 Norren

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Posted 01 September 2012 - 09:49 PM

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Sep 01 2012, 12:12 PM)
Whats "chekhov's guns"? He never used a gun.


Chekhov's Gun is a literary expression: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun

You can find more at TVtropes.

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Sep 01 2012, 12:12 PM)
I at first too thought how he could let Johnny Black hit him even though hes Kirito, but its Johnny Black were talking about here. Hes not just another player from SAO but one of the three highest of Laughing Coffin so its not surprising that he has skill too.


Is Laughing Coffin even that good? They're on top as PKs go, but that's because they're basically part of the Clearing Group as far as levels go. Our only tangible information about their battle strength from the Laughing Coffin Crusade is that Kirito was able to fend off Johnny Black and XaXa by himself with just one sword; and building to the unknown, during the Murder Case arc, PoH considered Kirito and a bluff enough of a threat that he withdrew.

(Edit: I'd actually forgotten about the XaXa vs Kirito fight's conclusion in the BoB. That one was such a confusing result since there were so many "external" factors, like Kirito's emotional state, etc.)

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Sep 01 2012, 12:12 PM)
Seems like we have a different understanding of whats "keeping the story really true to source" is because for me they have left out far too much stuff to even consider it beeing near the story. After all they didnt really animate part of the story for now. All they did was animate a few sidestorys which have no substance at this point of the series instead of animating the story of SAO.


To me, omitted details aren't as bad as completely changed details. I can live with omissions, it's when you spit in the face of the original content by doing things like "Hey, let's add this filler arc that completely undoes the entire pretense of the story!" that it truly gets bad. They made the decision to tell the story in chronological order, and have adapted things ever so slightly here and there to add context to the side stories where they could.

I think I've said it before, but the omitted details aren't "gone", either. They're just omitted. As with Fate/Zero's first half, we saw that the "extended blurays" added quite a few omitted details from the books, so I really don't think it's time yet to raise a stink. You can raise a stink when the SAO extended blurays are out and the series is over. We don't even know how far into SAO they're going to get at current pace, they might stretch the end out, or we might get to see the whole ALO arc.

So... again... Omissions aren't bad. New original (aka filler) plot arcs are.

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Sep 01 2012, 12:12 PM)
But you are right thinking back there are a lot of bad adaptions (just thinking of the countless eroge adaptions -.-) so it may not be one of the worst adaptions but thats not making it better. Like I said if the Novels never existed it would be a good anime but compared to the Novels the anime loses big time, but I can understand that animating a novel is just far too difficult to actually succeed. At least not with the current anime-industry.


"One of them is my little sister!" just to name a bad conversion from this season? tongue.gif I still think SAO is turning out amazing and Fate/Zero turned out amazing. I have my own personal disappointments with each, but they aren't killing my enjoyment. You're not going to get a true, 1:1, literal conversion of a novel into an anime that works. Something has to give, period.

Edited by Norren, 01 September 2012 - 10:36 PM.


#35 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:16 AM

QUOTE (Norren @ Sep 01 2012, 10:49 PM)
Is Laughing Coffin even that good? They're on top as PKs go, but that's because they're basically part of the Clearing Group as far as levels go. Our only tangible information about their battle strength from the Laughing Coffin Crusade is that Kirito was able to fend off Johnny Black and XaXa by himself with just one sword; and building to the unknown, during the Murder Case arc, PoH considered Kirito and a bluff enough of a threat that he withdrew.

(Edit: I'd actually forgotten about the XaXa vs Kirito fight's conclusion in the BoB. That one was such a confusing result since there were so many "external" factors, like Kirito's emotional state, etc.)

Yes I think they must have certein skill or else they couldnt survive like that. In my eyes surviving as an PKer is far harder than beeing a normal player, defenitely on the same level as a frontliner because you have even more and more powerful enemys than everyone else.

QUOTE
To me, omitted details aren't as bad as completely changed details.  I can live with omissions, it's when you spit in the face of the original content by doing things like "Hey, let's add this filler arc that completely undoes the entire pretense of the story!" that it truly gets bad.  They made the decision to tell the story in chronological order, and have adapted things ever so slightly here and there to add context to the side stories where they could.

I think I've said it before, but the omitted details aren't "gone", either.  They're just omitted.  As with Fate/Zero's first half, we saw that the "extended blurays" added quite a few omitted details from the books, so I really don't think it's time yet to raise a stink.  You can raise a stink when the SAO extended blurays are out and the series is over.  We don't even know how far into SAO they're going to get at current pace, they might stretch the end out, or we might get to see the whole ALO arc.

So... again... Omissions aren't bad.  New original (aka filler) plot arcs are.

Well lets think about if, are the BDs interesting to me? Yes if I can see breasts and panties because of it. Will I see them in the SAO BDs? Defenitely not. So are they interesting to me? No.
If they are not shown in the TV version they are not omitted they are gone because I never got to see them. And I dont believe they will extend the story about Griselda and Co to an exclusive BD-episode or extend the others to 45-60 minutes they would need to keep in what had to be in. Never watched the Fate/Zero BDs so I dont know how much they added.
I hope they will go only until the end of SAO and leave ALO for a second season.

QUOTE
"One of them is my little sister!"  just to name a bad conversion from this season? tongue.gif  I still think SAO is turning out amazing and Fate/Zero turned out amazing.  I have my own personal disappointments with each, but they aren't killing my enjoyment.  You're not going to get a true, 1:1, literal conversion of a novel into an anime that works.  Something has to give, period.

Never read the Light Novel of that show, for me its just an Average anime. Fate/Zero was really great but I never read the LN either but intend to do when the animes a bit more back in time so that the story gets almost new again.
Like I said I can understand it and I know it has to be with the current animeindustry but that doesnt mean I have to like it. If somethings bad then its bad and flowertalking it wont make it better.
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#36 Norren

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 09:39 AM

QUOTE (Killer_Ossi @ Sep 01 2012, 08:16 PM)
Well lets think about if, are the BDs interesting to me? Yes if I can see breasts and panties because of it.


That is so inappropriate and offensive I don't even know what to say.

#37 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:45 PM

QUOTE (Norren @ Sep 02 2012, 10:39 AM)
That is so inappropriate and offensive I don't even know what to say.

To whom and why?
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#38 Killer_Ossi

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Posted 15 September 2012 - 04:50 PM

Here is an interesting post about how SAO would probably be if it was written now. Good that it was written in 2002 when MMORPGs were still work instead of a hobby.
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#39 Ryu

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:57 AM

definitively SAOs story would have been very different 10 years later or not done nowadays, for me this was funny but true at the same time...

"When SAO first began airing, people joked that it was fortunate there were no Koreans trapped in there with them, or else the game would be cleared in under two weeks (I sincerely hope this was a joke, otherwise it suggests quite the naiveté). This is simply not feasible. Back in 2002, before the ‘free-to-play’ and ‘cash shop’ models had become almost synonymous with the genre, MMOs were designed to be a time sink in order to fully take advantage of the subscription fees players were required to pay."
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#40 Norren

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:43 PM

QUOTE (NecroRyu @ Sep 16 2012, 09:57 PM)
definitively SAOs story would have been very different 10 years later or not done nowadays

Doubtful. I think the article is under the mistaken notion that western and/or Korean MMOs do well in Japan. I could say more, but I'm holding my tongue as I'm fearful it would deconstruct the story in a bad way for people. I say we should discuss the article again after the anime gets to the book 3 content. (Probably in 3 or 4 episodes at most. There really isn't much of book 1 left.)

Anyway, I said I'd do this and haven't been keeping up:

1: As of the end of the Gleameyes boss fight, the anime officially passed the 4koma manga, and all of it can be read without spoilers.

2: With the end of the Yui's Heart Episode, you can now read the last sidestory in Book 2, Morning Dew Girl.

3: This one's kind of awkward because of how the multiple medium storytelling has been piecemealed together... paragraphed for clear separation:

Kawahara drew a(n?) one shot SAO manga titled "The Progressers", covering the boss of the 56th floor (A small part of the chapter was adapted and inserted at the start of the Murder Case arc). The Manga technically had a spoiler at the end, as it ended off by saying how many months remained until Kirito and Asuna get married, so now that we've seen their marriage in the anime, that's not a spoiler anymore. Chronologically, it should be fine to read the chapter now, and passing references throughout the series have confirmed the material as canon. (since he self-published it and sold it at komiket, there was some question.)

However, the next episode muddies the water a bit.

Chronologically, next episode should be the "end" of Kirito and Asuna's honeymoon, and the contents of the story are referenced in passing, and the anime team may choose to feature the rest of the one shot's story as a flashback to fill the space. That said...

... The Morning Dew Girl sidestory overrides some of the original book 1 account of their honeymoon. The anime team will likely choose to skip the remainder of the original book 1 account for simplicity. In fact, I sort of hope they do. We already saw that scene in Angel Beats anyway.




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